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There has been a big buzz (pun!) about the proposed noise ordinance in the Village of New Paltz. The ordinance is unfair. This gadfly feels that it clearly represents the wants of a small portion of the community,and definetly targets college students. I understand that some people are kept up late at night by keg parties, band practices, and general silliness. I agree that Main Street is totally out of hand at times, but this proposal is far too extreme.
The new proposal requires a permit from the Village Board to attract public attention using any noise (2-5 F, 2-9 A, B). This one is pretty convenient at keeping activists on the hush. If we want to protest the noise ordinance, do we need to get a permit from the Village Board, to protest the Village Board? The proposal also specifically states the words "where keg beer is served". That is clearly pointed in the direction of young people in the community.
And has anyone done any analysis as to how this would effect business at K&E Beverage and our wonderful local wine shops? Probably not.
A noise ordinance is necessary; but not this one. A petition that has been circulating puts it as "not disagreeing with the idea of a mutual quiet time". The problem is that the proposed ordinance does not necessarily foster a "mutual quiet time". It instead targets certain age groups and activities. The Village needs to remember that we are a community, which means we all need to get along with one another. It's all about mutual respect for your fellow community members. Quoting the petition again, "The law needs to be fair and equitable for all members of the community".
22 comments:
So far, from what I have seen, it's a bad law and, also, bad law.
It's the empowerment of busybodies by busybodies.
I would go as far as calling it an attempt at the Stepfordization of New Paltz
Mrs. McP read through it and her one-word summary was "insane."
The idea of using that much force against noise is contrary to the very notion of civility.
the meeting began with Ira's extensive comments on the budget as he approaches the 10 minute mark, and the packed room gets restless people begin to speculate on whether it's his birthday and that's why they are letting him bask in the impatience of the audience. no time limits have been set. there is no sign up sheet.
this is a live blog but i could not figure out how to do it. i don't read blogs too much so if you make a mean comment i probably won't read it anyhow
ira is still talking and Shari asked him a question but i'm sitting in the back. OK now Jonathan is up and he starts by telling them how he appreciates them and he is now talking about the Moriello pool. He is objecting to them making a road to connect the two parking lots. It would go right through an area of the park. It will cost money, add impervious surfaces. He is suggesting that they look at alternatives. Like people could use the parking lot by the Stewarts or the town hall parking lot that could be used as overflow parking for the occasional swim meet when they need it. He understands the concerns of the neighbors but feels that the expense to the budget and the environment make it a bad idea. Jonathan is going on too and the natives are grumbling.
Now pete healey begins by calling jonathan's comments inappropriate to the budget discussion. says the budget is at least as important as the noise ordinance that people are here for. he says that they were expecting twice as much money as they got so they should talk about the cost overruns of the rail trail bridge. he is asking about holes he sees such as a 35k shortage on the planning board budget. there is money in dispute with the town and village 60k
parking violation fees short 62k
old parking tickets, 60k to collect
He says that they will be sending out a lot of letters. He says that the budget has been out for several weeks and not enough work has been done, time is running out
now it's the dude that comes in periodically about the hasbrouck park project. he says that only part of the project has been done and the money is being spent on the sojourner truth bridge instead. he is looking for the village to find the 85k and put it into the park He says that the money should be raised somehow because it is a very valuable project. he says that the park n ride across from stewarts cost 400k and there are rarely more than 5 cars there
he says that we are all suffering from deficits and that we should put the time and the vision into plans to make the park better
now BRittany Turner is speaking calling the park n ride a joke and a disaster and a waste of money. she is concerned about the complete failure of the village to put money and time into records management because the returns would be valuable because they could save the village from a lawsuit
the planning board should "suck it up" and get televised and that the village board shoudld be paid by the hour since their attendance has been lax
i am doing this because terence p ward asked me to.
he also asked me not to make up a name for him....
village is submitting a 600k grant for improvements to the sewage system
the grantwriter for the project is now here to speak about the application for repairing some of the sewer mains
it's a community grant block program
the village has to compete for a pot of
40 million in Albany and we can apply for up to 600,000
he has picked this project and drafted an application due on april 23rd says it is eligible and competitive and likely to win. he is seeking a yes from the board to apply
dealing with the aging sewer system,,. from the 50s a lot of sewage goes through a limited system that was designed for a much lower flow. having raw sewage in the storm water is very bad. the grant should bring the system into compliance, there is no local match. there are lots of well documented problems with the main
it's all or nothing either we will get the 540k or no money at all.
they way to win is to spend the money quicky
i have to ask him about the green technology that i have been urging the village to look at
Pete questions him about the low or moderate income benefit and the grantwriter says that he is within the bounds that require 51% and he has 58 in the village. there are 2,000 potential competitors...
the villagers are grumbling they are all mostly here for the noise ordinance....
one nation under CANADA .....
NYPIRG's earth day request...
agenda is ammended to bump the noise ordinance
Shari announces the new parade "phools" parade
"come as you art" dressing to reflect your take on local art...
Sunday something -- i missed it
Terry says electric mowers are better than gas
no exhaust and less energy-- less noise
Shari reminds people not to use their lawn equipment
Terry says that
village response to the census -- less than 50%
the count is meant to give a clear count -- it leaves out gays and lesbians? he wants people to go to the national gay and lesbian task force website and get a sticker
he is speaking quickly and it's about drugs-- oh i remember that survey... they asked us how often our kids took drugs and what kind and what we thought about it-- Sylvie filled mine out partly....
study to determine which parks should be designated
1:30 in a week and a half UCRR 336-3336 they are collecting hazardous materials including paint
the regatta is may 2nd-- they want $20.00 to register your boat... but lots of boaters just show up in the parking lot. you have to sign a waiver and you might win a prize.
now it's bob gabriello-- glad he's not at the high school about the budget. he says that some of the older people on the board were noisy when they were young. he says the noise ordinance is quoting from the NY ordinance about disturbance
and they should have the statistics
now he's on about the separation of the branches of the government. they can't dictate how the judge will fine...because the violation
he is called at 3 minutes and an argument ensues over whether someone can yield their time. the villagers are really getting heated
the older women are clapping their hands to drown him out. someone shouts "four legs good two legs bad"
Now it's Rick explaining what's wrong with the decible requirements-- that they are ridiculous and unattaniable
Sally, next to me says he's wrong
How can you expect police officers to understand decibel levels, Rick asks --he is a sound engineer and it's difficult without an accurate device
Property owners should not be held responsible for noise on their property
Rossalyn is now speaking and she says that there are extremes... she does not want to limit any one's free expression -- there has to be a compromise with respect and the students and the villagers have to get together and find a common ground .. everyone claps
Adir is speaking-- he says the frats give money to the police and that's why the police don't bother them
He thinks students do not get treated as well by the police as the villager.
the villagers are grumbling
George Selby is now speaking and gives a list to make it fair
one warning per incident-- this must be included
many students have been arrested without warning
exceptions should be made for professional musicians if they are made for work
no fines over 100
no arrests if there is no crime
there should be no kegs mentioned in a law
only one person charged per incident
the landlord should not be concerned with what his tenants do
if there are no complaints no arrests
the decibel levels are unreasonable and need to be changed
Shelby-- the issue of musicians-- if there are hours for construction there should be hours for music and fun. we should agree on hours and compromise
Mark Portier-- mixed neighborhood, favorite noises he hears his neighbors spoon in a cereal bowl
lives near Phil Kadet and loves to hear him play
We have to help the people who are suffering from noise-- there are a few of them they need help
It's a village and we all live together
He compares living in gth
you should know the first names of your neighbors so you can say hey Jimmy instead of hey Jackass
He says not to judge people by their appearance like whether they have tatoos or are old
He trusts the board to make a good decision
We need a remedy.
Karen Sobel has done a lot of research
common respect-- not bringing parties outside or shouting when you come home from the bars
She enumerates the adverse physical effects of noise but she has used up her time...
now it's a student.. i missed most of it. he is now recommending a dialog with the bar owners
now it's robert brushforth from N Chestnut-- he says he's too tolerant-- the noise is too much too loud and too long and he will do whatever he can to quell the noise and urges the board to make the strongest ordinance possible and that noise is just part of the problem
there are some puzzled "huh?s from the villagers
now a student is talking about bob dylan and that we shouldn't be loud at 3am and that the ordinance has scared him. and students are not going to want to come here if there is a noise ordinance and drunk people won't dare go to fat bob's
amanda ericson from lookout avenue. upset that students weren't brought in from the beginning
now there is grumbling... what bothers her is the 250 fine for the offence she wants community service picking up garbage as a punishment but she doesn't know that the new paltz judges are too lazy to assign it
the camera man says the noise ordinance will ruin his dreams of being a drummer
Adam garfield -- in his parent's community you will hear bikers so that's why he moved to new paltz and he really appreciates living here with a few wild kids from time to time. he came here with the hope of living in a quiet special place and this is it. you can hear
now this guy who is saying he's is a quiet guy
he and his friends did not think the town is real
if you take out the noise you take out the flavor
part of being a college town is noise
we can't make new paltz into a freaking long island
he is getting excited. this is a mystical town and drunk loud kids and bands are part of the charm
now it's a student with large sideburns
he is saying that there is a discrepancy-- the enforcement section says 50 ft but the other part says 25. the law discriminates against music and that should not be explicitly listed. the proposed decibel levels are very high
someone points out the police chief rolling his eyes in the corner
tom whalen says that he became some semblance of an adult here in New Paltz and being an adult is about taking accountablility-- the law may look good on paper but it won't work it will be reinforced based on fear and it's an atmosphere of fear. to do something because you are told is to be "infantalized" (great neologism) he says that he knows what noise is and he lives and teaches here-- the law may be meant to create harmony but will so the opposite
Liz York wants to appeal to the
she's an honor's student and has never been arrested and the law scares her. Alienation and criminalization need to be removed
Rob Sobel-- says that there is a big difference between what students do now and what they did when he was young. He says that when the neighbors told him to be quiet he apologized and was quiet but now a days the youngsters are not respectful and curse
Amanda Sissenstein she reaches out to her neighbors who just spoke. Exceptions need to be made for bars but the bars need to take responsibility for the loud smokers outside, Outside loudness is what really ends up bothering the neighbors
3 things
neighborly consideration-- find out if your neighbors get up early-- drunks don't think about that sort of thing
house parties...there should be a frame of reference and the decibel levels need to be more realistic-- and hour limits-- house parties aren't loud it's the people outside... she is out of time.
Sandy Kaplan-- lots of children on her road - what do you say to young children who are woken up by partiers?
Mark Potack.. wantsto share that he is moving off campus. he describes a nice day in new paltz where someone had a boom box on the street. that was what made him decide to come to new paltz. he feels that public music is an important part of new paltz and should not be stifled. he adds that the decibel level in the room is in violation
Eve concludes that the ordinance will not benefit the community-- she thinks that it gives the vboard too much power since it's to their discression to grant exceptions. ordinance does not inspire trust and it needs to be rewritten
Adele Ruger-- outside playing raffi music with her 1 year old grandchild. says that the law is unenforceable so then it will be enforced arbitrarily against the students. she does not want the landlords responsible-- should they be accountable if the students get bad grades or their parents get divorced?
jopnathan cohen-- 3 children hears the bard every night moved there because of the noise-- omg he's quoting from the song American Pie. He is on about playing music outside and now he's mad about being timed and he is saying nice things about the police
and that they said they could arrest him but i guess they didn't. sometimes he calls the police on the bars and that the police tell the bars to keep it down and they do.
the villagers are grumbling and going "stop" and "jesus"
another cute student-- says that students should be way more considerate, worries about outdoor music
i'm starting to get really tired
a young person-- a student who lives by southside says she calls the police and they shut the parties down. thinks the residents should just call. the fact that the police are getting tasers scares her because as someone with a heart condition a taser would kill her
student has an issue with the hostile framing-- dislikes the keg reference-- that young people use kegs shows that they are being targeted -- the fine is too steep-- the ordinance is a 'giant middle finger" to the students
ok i'm posting-- no edits at this point people are saying the same things that were said before
now a student is complaining that the ordinance discriminates against musicians-- that is a profession too
i'm really really tired at this point. terence i hope you appreciated this in your cubicle wherever you are being a robot for pay or whatever it is you are doing
now that most of the students are gone the board is now talking to Sally
she feels her committee has been disrespected by the board
the boardmembers are vying for speech and now jean gets it. She advocates for the committee getting to discuss the issue with the board. and Patrick recuses himself but does not give a reason.
Sally says the ordinance is a work in progress and not nearly ready. She wants to put a warning in the law and says that many of the students' concerns are incorrect. she says the old ordinance is biased and subjective and that the new one
Sally has found students more respectful and communicative than some residentsw
the committe is trying to legislate civility and that Michelle Combs represents the campus
Brian returns that the administration does not represent the students. She tells Brian not to interrupt her. She says that the barowners..
...brian interrupts her again and people start objecting
Joe Snyder comes to life and takes over silencing them all- he says that they have been working on the ordinance for over a year
and that things will not really change -- the problem is enforcement..He says that the police do give warnings and try to work with student. He likes loud music etc. he says he likes college kids and wants to work on something fair. he says he greets the students when they come back
He says that low fines encourage repeat offenders
He doesn't think ACDs work.
but they can be serious actually
says to bear with us and bear with the board..
and wants to work together
Brian Kimbiz is complaining that he has brought the issues to the attention of the committee before
He put the ordinance on line and this is how people reacted-- excluding music is not fair and he knows plenty of people who have been arrested. he says that the law was pushed on us and that if people hadn't come down it might have just gone to public hearing and been passed,
now i really have to go... sorry i could not stay to the end. my head hurts
I hope they work this out.
Sally was asking for minutes-- the CD was offered to her but who can watch all that?
omg it's 10:00 my legs hurt i really have to go
there is mucho grumbling
Thanks, Rachel.
Watching the live broadcast, if it could be called either "live" or a "broadcast," the early part of the noise discussion seemed very positive, and a good thing. Then the "live broadcast" got really so irritatingly bad that I stopped watching. (If I ever really uncork my irritation about that business not being fixed...anyway.)
Checked back in later and the chief was being diplomatic.
Before or after that I saw the...never mind. I can't be that nasty.
But the students were great. Nice to see them in that room. This was a good solid community discussion, I thought. Mark Portier was very good on basic neighbor reciprocity. My sentiments are close to his and to the guy who said that the law infantilizes people. That's two thumbs up for that comment.
thanks so much Rachel.
did they say what their next steps are?
(I was so proud of Sylvie at sb!!!)
Rachel- great job!!! thank you so much. If I wasn't dieing of the pollen plague I would have been there.
I don't need to comment, because it's all been said...but I will say this...
I do like the idea of PARTYING HOURS! Like, on Fridays and Saturdays, we should be allowed to party from 10 PM to 1 AM...especially cuz it's the weekend, and you don't want anyone in your house after 1 AM anyway, it's stressful, you're tired, and you need to clean up. Plus, we should all be at the bar by 11 PM in order to hear our wonderful career musicians play....yes?
yall should watch videos of british parliment and how they catcall and holler at one another.
I miss everyone so much, and am so excited to be back on the grid this week!!!!!
I'm pissed as hell! I'M PISSED AS HELL!!!
I spoke at a public hearing before the regular meeting. There is no time limit on comment during a public hearing. A reasonable time limit during public comment at a regular meeting can be enacted, so Bob Gabrielli was way out of line(and this is something he probably knows very well, but he was just grandstanding I think). Jonathan Wright was out of order I believe because his comments really belonged as public comment at a regular meeting because they weren't about the village's proposed budget.
The village board leadership might have pointed this out but I think three of them didn't care enough and the other two didn't know enough.
The village's finances are in dire condition and it is quite a convenient distraction to talk about loud young people in the middle of the night. It's particularly convenient when people act out of mistaken understandings and with only one-third of the information they need to properly understand what's actually being proposed. But then full information might get in the way of the rabble-rousing and where's the fun in that?
I thought that your comments during the budget hearing were very germane. Especially as you pointed out that some of the revenue projections were way optimistic. If you didn't notice, the mayor paid careful attention to what you were saying and took notes. It appeared that the rest of the board heard you too. So your presentation was very effective.
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